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playing long samples from any pattern position
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Kmuland
Posted 2004-08-31 1:00 PM (#13319)
Subject: playing long samples from any pattern position


Member

Posts: 8

Location: Spain
Hi Crish

One thing that bothers me while tracking is if i'm triggering a
really long sample somewhere a few patterns back, I have to preview from the beginning of that pattern, so sequenciation work is delayed a lot. (Im sure many trackers have surefed that)
Im watching your Future Concepts screenshot and maybe Waveform Preview/Audio suport would solve this problem)


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chrisnash
Posted 2004-09-01 12:21 PM (#13320 - in reply to #13319)
Subject: playing long samples from any pattern position



Developer

Posts: 746
50010010025
Location: England
Aye, that is a problem with trackers (and MIDI). And unfortunately, the waveform preview is not going to help: for graphical purposes, the waveform's resolution is 100's if not 1000's of times smaller than that needed for audio - this is what makes the feature feasible. If audio waveforms were simlarly cached, reViSiT would need GB's of RAM to play with.
However, there may be another way around the problem - where blank spaces in the pattern have 'pointers' to the previously entered note - and perhaps then: only at the start of a pattern. So, when pattern playback begins, reViSiT can search for any notes that should be playing (and offset the sample, envelopes, etc. accordingly). There of course would be a little processing overhead before playback begins, but I think it should be negligable - so as not to impede playback.
It should, however, be pointed out that the union of tracking with sequencing was aimed at solving this exact problem. However, it was envisaged that sequencers would handle all the long sounds (as imported audio files). Alternatively, you could use reViSiT to playback the piece once (soloing the track containing the loooong sounds) and bounce it down to a sequencer audio track. SX2 has a neat feature called 'freeze' which is designed exactly for this purpose... but I don't think it works with reViSiT ("Instrument is not connected. Freeze is not possible.") ... yet. But you should still be able to do it with "Audio Mixdown".

All the best,
Chris
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Kmuland
Posted 2004-09-01 6:04 PM (#13321 - in reply to #13320)
Subject: playing long samples from any pattern position


Member

Posts: 8

Location: Spain
Hi Crish,
Check Modplug Tracker... it solve partially this problem.
If you start playing a song, then you press stop.. and continue playing song from stopped position.. Modplug "remember" the correct offset of the sample being played.

There is a little delay when you press play (some background process) but really is not very noticeable.. and you can work with it perfectly.

The only problem of Modplug is that you cannot play from any song position.
You can only continue play from position where you paused the running song.

Im sure you will find a solution for fix that and implement it on reVisit.

Best regards
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chrisnash
Posted 2004-09-01 6:55 PM (#13322 - in reply to #13321)
Subject: playing long samples from any pattern position



Developer

Posts: 746
50010010025
Location: England

I've had a bit of think about an 'audio resume' feature. The ModPlug behaviour doesn't strike me as particularly useful - it's just a pause button. Most of the time you'd want to - for example - loop a bar of music and have all the notes that would affect the looped region (thought are not actually in it) still play.
  
The thought occurs that it'd be costly to search for any previous notes, then offset the sample AND take into account all the sample loops, etc. An alternative, I thought, would be to have it so that, when the pattern is first played back, reViSiT records the sample playback offset at each row (a lot cheaper than storing the audio). This might allow reViSiT to start from any row, and still pick up the previous 'overhanging' notes. The only drawback would be that you'd have to play the song once through so that reViSiT could compile its list of offsets. It's tricky to code and quite tricky to understand, but I think it would be fairly intuitive to understand once the audio waveform previews are implemented - so I'll try and tackle the two problems in sympathy with each other... when I get that far!

Regards,
Chris


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eesn
Posted 2004-09-10 4:13 PM (#13323 - in reply to #13322)
Subject: playing long samples from any pattern position


Do we need such a complication as remembering sample position?
A zero-value portamento did a perfect job w/ trackers, as long as the tracker restarted the note if the note had stopped before the new command. Besides, trackers are more optimised for shorter samples? I'd be happy to see variable length patterns much more than accurate sample-position support such as that.

my2c

g


Reply to : Kmuland



Hi CrishOne thing that bothers me while tracking is if i'm triggering areally long sample somewhere a few patterns back, I have to preview from the beginning of that pattern, so sequenciation work is delayed a lot. (Im sure many trackers have surefed that)BRIm watching your Future Concepts screenshot and maybe Waveform Preview/Audio suport would solve this problem)





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rpc9943
Posted 2004-09-10 5:41 PM (#13324 - in reply to #13323)
Subject: playing long samples from any pattern position


Regular

Posts: 62
2525
Location: United States
i agree
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chrisnash
Posted 2004-09-11 2:42 AM (#13325 - in reply to #13324)
Subject: playing long samples from any pattern position



Developer

Posts: 746
50010010025
Location: England

I also agree - and I have to point out that such a resume feature would be a luxury item: it will not be a priority for v1.0, but might be something to investigate later on. Variable length patterns, on the other hand, definitely are a priority. I have quite a neat system worked out that I hope will even enable the tracker to follow the changes in time signature, which occur in the host. Currently, it's only on paper, but I think I know how to code it. The trouble is going to be explaining it to the users! I might ask for some help there...

With the weekend approaching, I should have some spare time to put in on reViSiT - the last week or so has been completely taken up with my day job (also music software ;o). I've been slogging my guts out to get ahead of schedule a bit (after falling slightly behind due to illness). Sadly, I'm not doing reViSiT as a full-time academic course anymore and I have to balance it with more practical concerns. However, the guy I work for gave me an excellent book the other day - "Music Notation", by Gardner Read. Lots of handy tips about timing, time signatures, etc. Should even be helpful with the Variable Length patterns.

I'll keep you all posted.

All the best,
Chris


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Kmuland
Posted 2004-09-11 2:12 PM (#13326 - in reply to #13325)
Subject: playing long samples from any pattern position


Member

Posts: 8

Location: Spain
Hey, Im agree too.
Variable lenght patterns are really a priority..

All tracker basic features are first on the list.
The fashion new improvements (like resume sample position), are only ideas for future versions (beyond v1.0, when all basic tracker stuff be ready)

Best regards
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rpc9943
Posted 2004-09-11 5:43 PM (#13327 - in reply to #13326)
Subject: playing long samples from any pattern position


Regular

Posts: 62
2525
Location: United States
Will Money accelerate development?



RonC
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chrisnash
Posted 2004-09-11 7:11 PM (#13328 - in reply to #13327)
Subject: playing long samples from any pattern position



Developer

Posts: 746
50010010025
Location: England

I'm prepared to do reViSiT for free (at least for the time being), but I'd love it if I could somehow use it to earn enough money so that it could form part of my income (and therefore oblige / allow me to spend more time on it). RonC mentioned that some 'old sceners' might be prepared to contribute some pennies, which would be appreciated. If you feel the urge, then I've already got a PayPal account registered under spam.nashnet@btinternet.com - as little, as much or as nothing as you want.

Don't worry, though. If a contribution is not for you, then feedback and participation also trades favourably against the dollar and the euro. Also, I'd greatly appreciate anybody who can "spread the word" - newsgroups, forums, websites... magazines... ?

Anyway, I hope you find the current development rate tolerable - don't miss the recently release v0.85.1! Let me know if your respective bugs are still appearing!

All the best,
Chris


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