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MIDI notes/volumes/effects
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mos6502
Posted 2009-03-14 7:35 PM (#14560)
Subject: MIDI notes/volumes/effects


Member

Posts: 29
25
I've noticed that tracking volumes and effects differs between sample-based instruments and MIDI instruments - for example, with MIDI it appears if you make a volume change it applies to the instrument globally, vs. with a sampled note it would just affect the note as it plays in its own channel. Is there a workaround for this?

Also, effects don't seem to work properly when applied to MIDI notes. I'd expect this to be the case, since MIDI data and tracker notation are technically dissimilar, but again I want to make sure I'm not missing something here.

Lastly, I've never fully understood the difference between Note Off (looks like =) and Note Cut (looks like VVV) in the editor. Can someone explain this to me? I know they function the same way when applied to MIDI notes.

Thanks,
Owen
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CS_TBL
Posted 2009-03-14 7:39 PM (#14561 - in reply to #14560)
Subject: Re: MIDI notes/volumes/effects



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Posts: 512
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Location: Netherlands
In IT2 === vs ^^^ relates to the own instruments. === triggers a note-off in the envelope, after which anything could happen. ^^^ immediately silences any playing samples, regardless of whatever envelope. For MIDI this has no effect obviously. Haven't ever tried the internal sample player of reViSiT, but I bet my toenail that it works the same.
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chrisnash
Posted 2009-03-14 9:03 PM (#14562 - in reply to #14560)
Subject: RE: MIDI notes/volumes/effects



Developer

Posts: 746
50010010025
Location: England

Re: MIDI note changes 

Sadly, the MIDI specification doesn't provide a way of addressing notes triggered in the past, so all volume, panning and pitch changes must be done at the channel level instead. There are two workarounds you might look at...

The first is to use a different MIDI channel for each line of music you want to control individually - e.g. in a triad chord, separate the notes over 3 channels, so that you can use channel level edits to control each one. Of course, you'll run out of channels fairly quickly unless you're using several external / loopback drivers.

The second option is to look into key aftertouch, which is supported in reViSiT as a MIDI Effect (Instrument List > Pitch / MIDI > Advanced MIDI Settings). Depending on how your synth is set up (and if it supports key aftertouch), you might be able to use this to control the volume of each note after it is triggered. I've never tried this approach, but it's sound in theory - let me know how you get on!

Re: reViSiT effects over MIDI

The vast majority of effects should work in MIDI, again subject to the limitations of the MIDI specification - such as the channel/note issue above. For pitch, reViSiT is forced to use the MIDI Pitch Bend to make pitch adjustments. To ensure these are accurate, you must tell reViSiT the Pitch Bend Range your synth is using (again, see Advanced MIDI Settings). Note, that you will be limited to this range for all pitch slides, so don't expect a smooth glissando over 9 octaves. Forget Sample Offset (Oxx) as MIDI has no concept of samples - and forget surround sound, because MIDI's strictly stereo. Otherwise, if you're having difficulty with a particular effect over MIDI, let me know which one, and perhaps I can shed some light on it.

Re: Note Off vs. Note Cut.

As CS_TBL describes, Note Cut is an abrupt cut (instant silence), whereas Note Off is more of a "release" - allowing reViSiT to use the fadeout or envelope to gracefully get rid of the note.

There's lots of information on these topics in the reViSiT help file, but should you have any other questions, we'll try out best!

Regards,
Chris

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mos6502
Posted 2009-03-19 4:26 PM (#14602 - in reply to #14560)
Subject: Re: MIDI notes/volumes/effects


Member

Posts: 29
25
Thanks for the responses. Now I will think aloud:

I suppose the volume change limitations are not a huge deal, since if I were writing out the notes in say, Sonar's Piano Roll View, the visual "length" of the notes would be equivalent in reViSiT to the original note entry and then a note off/note cut (start and end of the notes). PRV mode doesn't (effectively) really allow for volume changes either (at least that I've used), just note on/note off...

I think what I need to do, in order to wrap my mind around tracking MIDI in reViSiT, is to use more (tracker) channels... maybe? In the past, I used trackers heavily, but it was all sample-based (which is why I left trackers, BTW)... I usually used a default setting of "NNA - Continue" of "Fade" per instrument to enable polyphonic behavior within each channel, and then use volume envelopes coupled with the occasional S7 family of commands to control the note volumes and interactions.

I've had mixed/inconsistent results trying to apply these techniques to my present-day VSTi-centric setup. I will take a look at the key aftertouch option, while I go back and rethink the whole of it...!

Respectfully,
Owen
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thinktankted
Posted 2010-01-29 9:33 PM (#15036 - in reply to #14602)
Subject: Re: MIDI notes/volumes/effects


New user

Posts: 3

In Sonar's PRV Volume can be controlled on a note by note basis by adjusting the velocity of the midi note. Underneath the Piano Roll where all the note's pitches and lengths are entered/displayed there is a bar-graph looking thingy, the indvidual bars represent the velocities of the midi notes. I don't know if there is a corresponding column in reViSiT. I don't know if there is any reason to mention this, though, seeing as how reViSiT is essentially a PRV alternative.
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chrisnash
Posted 2010-01-30 1:30 PM (#15039 - in reply to #15036)
Subject: Re: MIDI notes/volumes/effects



Developer

Posts: 746
50010010025
Location: England
The volume column for a note in reViSiT is used as the MIDI velocity, for MIDI instruments - but note that the MIDI spec does not allow you to change the volume of a note after it has started. Instead, subsequent volume changes for that note in reViSiT will be sent as MIDI Channel volume, not velocity.
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