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lackluster
Posted 2010-09-03 5:33 PM (#15121)
Subject: revisit requests


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Location: helsinki

hi, im finally back on a freshly installed 32bit xp on an amd machine. and i've got a few questions:
and on reViSiT v1.4.1 Standard.

i've got a few requests. i dont think i'll be able to do this coherently unless if i just do a thread like this and keep adding stuff to it.

 

the first thing would be this:

ctrl-f is currently the pattern playback follow toggle on/off. is revisit capable of having two different shortcuts do the same thing? ctrl-f is pretty cool, but so is scroll-lock. wouldn't it support the concept of the origins of impulsetracker inside ReViSiT that scroll-lock would still be allowed for, but also keeping this pretty dandy ctrl-f available for those with laptops, or who are more used to how other tools do it?

second: 

i am meeting this issue quite a bit, now that im trying the ReViSiT sample-load-view.. i love it! i haven't seen the enter-view, its been a while since i tried it, but anyway: this:  if i have a pattern playing,  and im in f3-enter   sample-loading mode,  what do i do? well, i tend to zoom with the cursors up and down, and press enter to load sounds.  sure, that works great. but here-in lies a bit of a predicament: if i use the cursors up and down, during playback, and i rpess a key to toggle the sample, the first play of it  seems kind of like a buffer play of "something" - i.e., the first toggle  when zooming around cursorup/cursordown, of a sample, doesnt play properly. so im wondering, can this performance be improved, so that i'd be able to hack around a folder of samples, in "Sample Library" mode, while the pattern is playing, and i can toggle samples? it seems that everytime a new sample is loaded, the previous is forgotten, so on every  cursorup-togglesample-cursordown-togglesample  i get an annoyed beep of "it's not loaded in yet", then the next one plays.

 

third:

since i just had revisit crash on me on an unsaved module, i'd like for the screen capture to be done, magically (yep, i know its unreasonable), of the ReViSiT screen, instead of what happens to be on the pc desktop at that point in time :D




Edited by lackluster 2010-09-03 5:36 PM
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lackluster
Posted 2010-09-03 6:10 PM (#15122 - in reply to #15121)
Subject: RE: revisit requests


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Location: helsinki

fourth:

when setting the sample-folder preferences and module-folder preferences for the first time in f12, i went in with a clipboard path ready to be pasted, and was met with a click-through window - is there a way of improving it so that one can paste in a folder and be, shall we say, quick about it? i know its minor... ok, i had a crash while clicking around in the folder preferences, and will now just try and get them in and be done with it instead of hmming and hawing about how to do it "nicer"

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lackluster
Posted 2010-09-03 6:12 PM (#15123 - in reply to #15121)
Subject: Re: revisit requests


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[combined with next message]<br />

Edited by lackluster 2010-09-03 6:27 PM
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lackluster
Posted 2010-09-03 6:20 PM (#15124 - in reply to #15121)
Subject: Re: revisit requests


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Location: helsinki
<p>ok, this was the second time i had a crash setting a new folder for loading modules from.. <br /></p><p>third.. fourth.. but this fourth time i saved preferences immediately after i set the samples-folder, so i have great hopes..</p><p>ok it seems that "C:\trackers\revisit 2010" isnt good enough for revisit.</p><p>ok, c:\trackers\revisit2010\ caused a crash too. but for some reason, i sent the report, and then i clicked save preferences, restarted logic5.5.1 and now i have the correct folders in.. im wondering, what did i do wrong all these times that i couldnt get it going?<br /></p>

Edited by lackluster 2010-09-03 6:27 PM
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CS_TBL
Posted 2010-09-03 6:36 PM (#15125 - in reply to #15121)
Subject: Re: revisit requests



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500
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As for the first: scroll lock is a key in my KVM switch (double [scroll lock] followed by [1] or [2] to switch monitor/mouse/keyboard), which was the original reason to revert back to ctrl-f back then. Is this exclusive to me? I dunno, I don't know all the KVM switches on this planet. I would say that a KVM switch either has a physical button, or else it'll need a key combi. And [scroll lock], from today's workflow is a rather pointless key, no wonder a KVM uses such a pointless key for something as radical as switching screens, so I can imagine they picked that key for that reason. The neighbour keys are less odd, pause is often used in (retro) emulators to pause the emulation, in consoles to pause output, and who knows.. it may pause playback in a DAW (never tried :D). Print screen is the universally accepted screenshot feature. More about scroll lock here.
Also, at more than one time did Chris write about IT only being a kind of "work flow" inspiration (work flow being the subject of his thesis), not with the intention of making a true IT clone with pixel accuracy (for that there are other trackers).

Having said that, I just tried to link 'toggle channel 8' (alt F8) to scroll lock by configuring that key, but no effect. Is this a limitation of the 'toggle channel 8' effect (probably not)? Or is there a problem with key learning when it comes down to scroll lock? The key learner at least sees you pressing scroll lock..

Finally, being september, I expect CN back soon to show his finished thesis and to announce he'll get back on rev dev like a an obsessed lion smelling a tasty zebra! :P
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lackluster
Posted 2010-09-03 6:55 PM (#15126 - in reply to #15121)
Subject: Re: revisit requests


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Location: helsinki
fifth:
samplelist / instrumentlist: dots showing which sample/instrument has been played during the most recent f5 / f6 mayhem
sixth:
Amplify Volume window in F2 - -could it have a display for the numbers i've put in, instead of showing a pretty much empty window without the "bar" that i see in impulsetracker/schism/etc?
seventh:
when i press Tab in samplelist, for the first time (Tab from Play-portion), could the cursor focus to Default Volume, and then a tab would make the cursor focus to filename, and then tab make the cursor focus back to "Play"?
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lackluster
Posted 2010-09-03 6:56 PM (#15127 - in reply to #15121)
Subject: Re: revisit requests


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Location: helsinki
<p>8th: would it be possible to provide even a simple 2 dot envelope (so that they are not next to eachother like what happens when i press insert two times in the envelope editor? this would be so nice for workflow purposes..</p><p>9th: a line that shows where the envelope is being played currently and by which channel..</p><p>10th:  same for sample info view in samplelist, i dont know how much of my sample plays throughout a time, even tho it is pretty nifty seeing a sample waveform like this <br /></p>

Edited by lackluster 2010-09-03 6:57 PM
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lackluster
Posted 2010-09-03 7:01 PM (#15128 - in reply to #15121)
Subject: RE: revisit requests


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Location: helsinki
11th:
here's a bit of a conundrum:
if i have:

^^^ .. .. .00
and change it to
^^^ .. 12 .00
the looping sample will actually keep playing in the background, which is really freaky.
this makes mucking around with alt-l followed by alt-v  a bit difficult on channels that use ^^  to cut a sample..
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lackluster
Posted 2010-09-03 7:04 PM (#15129 - in reply to #15121)
Subject: Re: revisit requests


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Location: helsinki

12th: wouldnt it be nice that when you press ctrl-L that the cursor would already be in the actual filebrowser, just like it is in Sample Library? i.e. that i could move my cursor keys around and press enter to load a module..

13th: Ctrl-L is disabled during pattern playback. makes me feel like something is broken - i guess this is done on purpose, however, does feel like its somehow underperforming, gets really confusing when youre going through a load of revisit modules looking for something interesting..

14th:  would it be possible for revisit to snoop the bpm that the host is playing it in, and embed it into the module as at least some form of information that can be loaded later?



Edited by lackluster 2010-09-03 7:07 PM
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lackluster
Posted 2010-09-04 8:58 PM (#15131 - in reply to #15121)
Subject: Re: revisit requests


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Location: helsinki
15th: sample-library, could one just press shift and cursor down and select a load of samples and then load them at one go? wouldnt that be handy..
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chrisnash
Posted 2010-09-05 1:01 PM (#15141 - in reply to #15121)
Subject: RE: revisit requests



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Location: England

Hi Esa,

Good to hear from you - thanks for all the feedback. This may take a while, but I'll try to answer your all your questions...

i've got a few requests. i dont think i'll be able to do this coherently unless if i just do a thread like this and keep adding stuff to it.


Well, I don't know if the thread strategy has necessarily helped with the coherence.  It might be better to ask less that 15 (+ other threads) questions at once, in the future.

1: ctrl-f is currently the pattern playback follow toggle on/off. is revisit capable of having two different shortcuts do the same thing? ctrl-f is pretty cool, but so is scroll-lock. wouldn't it support the concept of the origins of impulsetracker inside ReViSiT that scroll-lock would still be allowed for, but also keeping this pretty dandy ctrl-f available for those with laptops, or who are more used to how other tools do it?

Having said that, I just tried to link 'toggle channel 8' (alt F8) to scroll lock by configuring that key, but no effect. Is this a limitation of the 'toggle channel 8' effect (probably not)? Or is there a problem with key learning when it comes down to scroll lock? The key learner at least sees you pressing scroll lock.. 

To "support the concept of the origins of impulsetracker" is not a goal of the reViSiT project. In any case, IT2 had a monopoly on the keyboard and didn't have to share it with other programs, so locks like Scroll and Num Lock could be appropriated for its own use. reViSiT has to play nice with the other kiddies, and users are never quite sure what effect Scroll Lock will have for a program (e.g. your KVM example), so most programs and users avoid it.

I'll look at why the keyboard learner doesn't register Scroll Lock - but mostly out of curiosity, rather than to fix it. Scroll Lock is a toggle, not a trigger - has an on and off state - so behaves differently for other keys. It's thus possible Windows supplies it to a program differently. In any case, I may not enable it, for this very reason - it could create confusion. I'll see what's going on and think about it.

2: i am meeting this issue quite a bit, now that im trying the ReViSiT sample-load-view. if i use the cursors up and down, during playback, and i rpess a key to toggle the sample, the first play of it  seems kind of like a buffer play of "something" - i.e., the first toggle  when zooming around cursorup/cursordown, of a sample, doesnt play properly. so im wondering, can this performance be improved, it seems that everytime a new sample is loaded, the previous is forgotten, so on every  cursorup-togglesample-cursordown-togglesample  i get an annoyed beep of "it's not loaded in yet", then the next one plays.

Not sure why this might be, but have had other reports that the first play of a sample preview is playing correctly, so will look into it. I also, at some stage, hope to improve the sample loading speed, which should help.

3: since i just had revisit crash on me on an unsaved module, i'd like for the screen capture to be done, magically (yep, i know its unreasonable), of the ReViSiT screen, instead of what happens to be on the pc desktop at that point in time :D

Sorry about the crash - I'll be looking through the reports in the next few days. The screenshot is designed not just to capture reViSiT, but also the host, which requires a fullscreen capture.

4: when setting the sample-folder preferences and module-folder preferences for the first time in f12, i went in with a clipboard path ready to be pasted, and was met with a click-through window - is there a way of improving it so that one can paste in a folder and be, shall we say, quick about it? i know its minor... ok, i had a crash while clicking around in the folder preferences, and will now just try and get them in and be done with it instead of hmming and hawing about how to do it "nicer"

It might be relatively easy to add clipboard support to this control - I'll investigate.

ok, this was the second time i had a crash setting a new folder for loading modules from.. third.. fourth.. but this fourth time i saved preferences immediately after i set the samples-folder, so i have great hopes..

ok it seems that "C:\trackers\revisit 2010" isnt good enough for revisit.

ok, c:\trackers\revisit2010\ caused a crash too. but for some reason, i sent the report, and then i clicked save preferences, restarted logic5.5.1 and now i have the correct folders in.. im wondering, what did i do wrong all these times that i couldnt get it going?

I should be able to get to the bottom of this, with the crash reports.

5: samplelist / instrumentlist: dots showing which sample/instrument has been played during the most recent f5 / f6 mayhem 

This is planned. Indeed, I'm considering a minor audio ending change that might make this easier to implement.

6: Amplify Volume window in F2 - -could it have a display for the numbers i've put in, instead of showing a pretty much empty window without the "bar" that i see in impulsetracker/schism/etc?

That's a bug, and a pretty strange one, at that. Will be fixed as soon as I get the chance.

7: when i press Tab in samplelist, for the first time (Tab from Play-portion), could the cursor focus to Default Volume, and then a tab would make the cursor focus to filename, and then tab make the cursor focus back to "Play"?

I realise you might jump between these fields often, but the tab order of a page has got to be sensible - generally following western reading order (left-to-right, top-to-bottom) - you can't have the tab jumping all over the place and expect people to learn the sequence. If you're setting a lot of default volumes, think about using the Page Up/Dn keys to increment/decrement the current sample, while you're on the Default Volume field.

8: would it be possible to provide even a simple 2 dot envelope (so that they are not next to eachother like what happens when i press insert two times in the envelope editor? this would be so nice for workflow purposes..

You'll have to elaborate. What simple 2-dot envelop would you have as a default?

9: a line that shows where the envelope is being played currently and by which channel..
10:  same for sample info view in samplelist, i dont know how much of my sample plays throughout a time, even tho it is pretty nifty seeing a sample waveform like this

Yeah, I'd like to have these too - maybe when the audio engine change / playing-sample dots is done.

11: here's a bit of a conundrum: if i have:
^^^ .. .. .00
and change it to
^^^ .. 12 .00
the looping sample will actually keep playing in the background, which is really freaky. this makes mucking around with alt-l followed by alt-v  a bit difficult on channels that use ^^  to cut a sample..

Well, it's possible reViSiT uses the 12 volume to continue the sample (not sure how, though). Probably, it should just cut the sample and ignore the 12. However, alt-v will always just repeat the last volume you entered, so I don't know what you're expecting. If you want to clear all the volumes in a channel - hit alt-k twice.

12: wouldnt it be nice that when you press ctrl-L that the cursor would already be in the actual filebrowser, just like it is in Sample Library? i.e. that i could move my cursor keys around and press enter to load a module..

I currently have no control over the module loading screen - that's still provided by the host. One day, I might integrate it into reViSiT, but it is not a priority - as I don't count module loading as something that comes within the interaction process - it is usually just at the start of it.

13: Ctrl-L is disabled during pattern playback. makes me feel like something is broken - i guess this is done on purpose, however, does feel like its somehow underperforming, gets really confusing when youre going through a load of revisit modules looking for something interesting..

There should be a message in the status bar informing you that loading modules is not possible during playback. Previously, reViSiT was unable to stop playback triggered by the host, but recent changes have made this possible, so I might now be able to have reViSiT stop automatically when a load is requested.

14: would it be possible for revisit to snoop the bpm that the host is playing it in, and embed it into the module as at least some form of information that can be loaded later?

Sadly, it's not that simple, since the tempo might not be constant - and it is practically impossible for reViSiT to snoop all the different tempos for a song (a limitation of the VST spec). However, I might take a closer look at tempo control, as part of the reMASTER project (a dedicated host for reViSiT).

15: sample-library, could one just press shift and cursor down and select a load of samples and then load them at one go? wouldnt that be handy..

Multiple sample loading was something that was lost in the move to the library screens. At the time, it would have taken to long to code. I will, however, one day code this back into these screens.

Finally, being september, I expect CN back soon to show his finished thesis and to announce he'll get back on rev dev like a an obsessed lion smelling a tasty zebra! :P

Hmm, well I wish I had better news for you - but the original goal was the end of September. However, that has also slipped - as is the rule of all PhD's. That zebra is certainly whetting my appetite, but it will be a while before I go totally pro-active. However, I have now decided to be a little more hands-on - fixes and minor modifications are now back on the cards, but major new features are some way off still.

Now I just have to decide what's major and what's minor...

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lackluster
Posted 2010-09-06 11:18 AM (#15144 - in reply to #15121)
Subject: Re: revisit requests


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hi and thanks for the responses chris!
referring to #2: the "pattern is playing back, and you are toggling samples for the first time in sample library", 24bit wavs seemed to react slower than 16bit ones, but all of them would play a little "buffer""beep" before the sound would "load" and after that, the sound would play correctly. then when i pressed cursor up (previous sample) and cursor down (back to current sample), the memory would be ditched, and the first note would toggle the "buffer""beep", after which the second toggling of the same note would play it correctly.
#4,#5 = lovely!
#8 by a simple 2-dot envelope i was hoping that the first dot would be at the start and the second dot maybe 32 or 64 "ticks" later. now when i create a new envelope and press insert 30 times, i've got them right next to eachother and its really confusing. i think it'd be lush if the envelope would have some "space" for new ticks instead of being either empty, or "too full" .. i know you dont like mentions of IT2, but the way it drew a simple volume envelope or a default pan envelope, just to let you hack at that when you feel like it (and have enabled volume or pan envelopes).. that's what i would consider ideal.. instead of an empty envelope.

#15: sounds lovely! (multiple sample loading).. i do hope eventually we'll have it.

other than that, i'm well keen on revisit and how i can toggle patterns with the midikeyboard. its just lush..

#6: i found that in standard the window doesnt show a bar, in "pro" version the window of change volume amplitude would show a bar. so i'm chalking this up to standard just not being pro enough
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