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reViSiT v0.91 Beta released!
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chrisnash
Posted 2007-09-09 11:55 PM (#14037)
Subject: reViSiT v0.91 Beta released!



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Hi Everyone,

It is my pleasure to deliver reViSiT v0.91 Beta, featuring numerous updates and improvements. The major additions/changes:

  • A New Help System
    To support Vista and allow a little more robustness with window control, the help system has been moved from WinHelp to HTMLHelp technologies. This involved the gruelling conversion of all the RTF files to HTML and recoding of the index and contents data. Furthermore, to account for HTMLHelp’s impoverished unformatted text-only popups, I had to code my own help popup window and HTML rendering mechanism – thus the full colour, illustrated and formatted effect popups live on.
  • Workflow improvements
    Answering a few feature requests and adding some innovations of my own, this version a number of minor changes/additions to make working with reViSiT easier and quicker – including auto-extend clipboard operations (e.g. Alt-O*2); a program-wide, lockable Audition Mode (Caps Lock); and an Apply Last Pattern Options shortcut (Ctrl-F2).
  • Minor and major bug fixes
    After exhausting debugging sessions and conversations with ardent testers, I’ve managed to locate some of the more elusive problems with reViSiT and host interaction to solve problems such as: MIDI stops and resets that don’t trigger Note Offs or send reset messages; pattern highlight edits erasing pattern data; addition to the keyswitching problems in the last release, this update fixes a number of minor memory handling problems and leaks, as well as a couple of teething problems with .1’s channel naming and colouring features.
  • [ Professional Edition Update ]
    In parallel with this public release, the first Professional Edition is being made available to selected testers for the first round of “quality control”. v0.91 Pro features a full surround sound feature set, adding many effects, settings, shortcuts and widgets to take advantage of - literally - a new dimension of music. As testing proceeds, work continues on the assignable output features, destined to start testing with v0.92. Stay tuned!

For full details and many more changes, please read the release notes and download reViSiT v0.91 Beta from http://www.nashnet.co.uk/english/revisit/download.htm.

If anyone has any questions, feel free to pose them on the forum, and I’ll try to answer you as quickly as possible. For more information, see the reViSiT website @ http://revisit.nashnet.co.uk.

Enjoy!

All the best,
Chris

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CS_TBL
Posted 2007-09-10 9:20 PM (#14041 - in reply to #14037)
Subject: Re: reViSiT v0.91 Beta released!



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Is the pro version always a super-version of the normal version? E.g. if we test the pro version and spot a bug, can we then assume that exactly the same situation applies to the normal version?

+ I dunno whether you want to discuss the pro version on this open forum or in private over email.. :P
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CS_TBL
Posted 2007-09-10 9:43 PM (#14042 - in reply to #14037)
Subject: Re: reViSiT v0.91 Beta released!



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pattern-stretching still sluggish,
channel-rename still low..,
(and yes, I set gfx prio to high in prefs)

The readme says there was a [FIX] for this.. (?)


Stuff:

Actually, this one was around longer: ^__^
go to the instr.settings in F4, for ex. the midi section
Click for example 'Output', then hit page up/dn in order to click the same button again (e.g. setting up 16 midi channels for e.g. Halion3). If that button is already activated (stroke border) then you can't click it! You can however click other un-stroked'ed buttons. I try to visualize in code how that button could work (state variables 'n things) and I figure it *must* be something simple, or otherwise the spacetime-continuum must implode. :P

This bug also was around for a while, ohwell, let's mention it :P

MIDI section again, click the [settings], to setup controllers. When you mouseclick a slot you can select a ctrl, all fine. Now, don't mouseclick such a slot, but use the keyboard, you get the popup with ctrl'ers again, but whether you then mouseclick or keyclick on a ctrl, you ain't gonna get it into that list. I figure it's a focus bug or something.

I confirm that that note-off thing is fixed, yay! You have no idea how incredibly annoying that one was during the last months! :S
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CS_TBL
Posted 2007-09-10 10:47 PM (#14043 - in reply to #14037)
Subject: Re: reViSiT v0.91 Beta released!



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The scroll-lock thing instead of ctrl-f.

I'm not sure whether there are conventions regarding switchboxes, but mine uses double-[scrolllock] + [1] or [2] to switch between pc1 and pc2. You can imagine that during playback and me wanting to go the other PC, revisit starts following the song. It'd be very handy to make this key customizable, just as all keys could be. In this case it's not a matter of taste tho -e.g. testing keys for a bestkeys-chapter in a thesis- but of practical limitations. Other switchboxes might have a physical switch on the switchbox itself, I've a hotkey -which I can't change-.

Note that it's not uncommon for me to change PC's, for a long piece of music I might just listen to it while browsing the net on the other PC.
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chrisnash
Posted 2007-09-11 1:09 AM (#14044 - in reply to #14041)
Subject: Re: reViSiT v0.91 Beta released!



Developer

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Location: England

CS_TBL - 2007-09-10 9:20 PM

Is the pro version always a super-version of the normal version? E.g. if we test the pro version and spot a bug, can we then assume that exactly the same situation applies to the normal version?

+ I dunno whether you want to discuss the pro version on this open forum or in private over email.. :P


Yes, the Pro Edition uses exactly the same code as the Std Edition, except where Pro features are concerned - specific Pro code is switched/excluded at compile time.

And it's up to you whether you talk about the Pro Edition on the forum on in emails - best to use your own judgement. Worst case scenario: I'll spot something that's inappropriate (what, I can't imagine) and I'll move it from the forums to email.

Re: Sluggish Graphics. The comment in the readme.txt refers to a couple of changes I made that might have addressed your problem - the trouble is: I am unable to reproduce any such sluggishness in any host. I don't remember anyone else reporting that problem either (?). As for graphics priority, unless you really, really need 'Higher', reViSiT is likely to perform better at Normal graphics priority.

I'll look into moving / copying Pattern Follow back to Ctrl-F and investigate the focus problems you mentioned. You said they've been around a while: did you report them before?

Cheers,
Chris

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lackluster
Posted 2007-09-11 5:54 AM (#14045 - in reply to #14043)
Subject: Re: reViSiT v0.91 Beta released!


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CS_TBL - 2007-09-11 12:47 AM The scroll-lock thing instead of ctrl-f. I'm not sure whether there are conventions regarding switchboxes, but mine uses double-[scrolllock] + [1] or [2] to switch between pc1 and pc2. You can imagine that during playback and me wanting to go the other PC, revisit starts following the song. It'd be very handy to make this key customizable, just as all keys could be. In this case it's not a matter of taste tho -e.g. testing keys for a bestkeys-chapter in a thesis- but of practical limitations. Other switchboxes might have a physical switch on the switchbox itself, I've a hotkey -which I can't change-. Note that it's not uncommon for me to change PC's, for a long piece of music I might just listen to it while browsing the net on the other PC.

 

erm so does this mean that ctrl-f was replaced with scroll-lock, thus meaning that ctrl-f has been removed?

surely both could function?  

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chrisnash
Posted 2007-09-11 8:55 AM (#14047 - in reply to #14045)
Subject: Re: reViSiT v0.91 Beta released!



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One of the motivations of changing it was to free up Ctrl-F so it could be used for other features. As for using both, it sounds like CS's problem requires Scroll Lock to be kept free. Even though his KVM requires two Scroll Lock presses, which would return reViSiT to its original state, the damage would be done, as reViSiT will have moved the cursor to whatever is playing upon the first keypress. Right, CS?

Chris
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CS_TBL
Posted 2007-09-11 9:15 AM (#14048 - in reply to #14047)
Subject: Re: reViSiT v0.91 Beta released!



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You said they've been around a while: did you report them before?

Nah, to me they were low prio, now that some of the major things have been fixed (note-off, articulation etc.), it's time to bug you with these innocent insects. :P

as reViSiT will have moved the cursor to whatever is playing upon the first keypress. Right, CS?
Correct. As predictable, coming from IT2 I wasn't overawed with ctrl-f instead of scroll-lock at first, but when I installed my new PC -and KVM- it turned out to be that scroll-lock would've been a bad idea..

Configurable keys! (or at least this one :P) .. how about the [Pause-Break] key for the follower? Btw, I'm not sure whether 2 S-L presses would return rvst to its original state, perhaps the 2nd keypress might immediately switch the whole shebang, meaning that the 2nd keypress never arrives at rvst. Will check today..
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CS_TBL
Posted 2007-09-11 9:20 AM (#14049 - in reply to #14037)
Subject: Re: reViSiT v0.91 Beta released!



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As for the sluggish gfx, is there anything I can do? Obviously you aren't able to test, is there a way to have some kinda debugpopup with useful info, which you could insert in rvst? As in: show the state of some variables during resize or channel-title-typing.

Additionally, how about having some keys for the color selector for channels? (e.g. they work when the cursor is on those color rects)
[C] - copy color
[V] - paste color
[H] - hue shift color 10%
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fegi
Posted 2007-09-11 11:35 AM (#14050 - in reply to #14037)
Subject: RE: reViSiT v0.91 Beta released!



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wohooo...a new revisit release!! what a nice start into the week

[ADD] Apply last Pattern Options feature (Ctrl+F2)

what does "last pattern" reference too? the last pattern changes i made with f2 or the previous pattern in the order playlist or the last pattern i copied something from into the clipboard?

[ADD] Alt-O*2 overwrites + extends pattern (if required)

great! thanks a lot for this!

[ADD] Shift-Alt-O copies highlighting from clipboard, without copying data.
[ADD] Shift-Alt-O*2 overwrites highlighting and extends pattern using clipboard, without copying data.

what's the difference here to the apply last pattern options feature?

[MOD] Audition Mode now available throughout reViSiT.
[MOD] Audition Mode now uses Caps Lock and is lockable.
[MOD] Chords now supported in Audition mode.

to have the audition mode throughout the programm is simply great! thank you, thank you, thank you!!!
only nitpick would be that one can't switch ocatves when audition mode is on, but i can live with that

[FIX] MIDI Stop/Reset not issuing note-offs.
[FIX] Audition Mode not releasing notes.

unfortunately i can't confirm these 2 fixes on my system. like i posted here i found something interesting, that may help to find the cause of this annoying issue. i also made a short video which should help to clarify what i mean - grab it here.

i could provide you a package with a sample project and everything set up for you to test this your own...i really hope we can fix this some day.

[FIX] Instrument colours sometimes disappearing.

confirmed...doesn't happen anymore

[FIX] Pattern Highlight edit erases pattern data.

also confirmed.


unfortunately i can't test any multichannel features of the pro version as i don't have the hardware for it...but i'm sure cs_tbl is already firing up his orchestra sending timpanies and trumpets through space, right?! :D

overall a great update with many workflow improvements! thanks a lot for this chris!

greetings,

fegi
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chrisnash
Posted 2007-09-17 2:16 AM (#14052 - in reply to #14050)
Subject: RE: reViSiT v0.91 Beta released!



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Hi Fegi,

The "Apply last Pattern Options feature" refers to the last settings of the "Pattern Options" window, when it was "Applied" to a pattern. For example, change a pattern length or highlight and apply those settings and reViSiT will remember them. Then you can move to other patterns and simply press Ctrl-F2 to apply those same settings without the rigmarole of the Pattern Options screen. The Shift-Alt-O are similar, but with a couple of differences:

* Shift-Alt-O only copies the highlight without affecting pattern length.
* Shift-Alt-O*2 doesn't copy the length of the pattern in the clipboard, but takes the length of the clipboard contents (e.g. just 16 rows) and will only extend the pattern if the clipboard does not fit - and only by the required amount. For example, use the command with a 16 row clipboard, on row 54 of a pattern and you'll get 8 rows added on the end, to accomodate the clipboard. Although you should note that holding the shift key limits the operation to highlighting and extension without actually inserting the data - Alt-O*2 inserts the and extends data. Thus Ctrl-F2 and Shift-Alt-O*2 are only equivalent when the contents of the clipboard represents a whole pattern, and only when that pattern is longer. Notably, Ctrl-F2 can shrink a pattern, whereas Shift-Alt-O*2 only extends.

Thanks for the video; it was useful in getting an exact feel for what you were describing. The two bug-fixes referred to related problems. I think I can cure the problem now - it's similar, but the fix just needs to be extended to the Pattern-based Note-Offs.

As for not having a surround setup, you'll need a good excuse. It's the future, man! If you don't believe me, just listen to Jarre's Aero album on a half-decent surround sound system and tell me it doesn't inspire you to great things!

All the best,
Chris
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CS_TBL
Posted 2007-09-21 11:51 PM (#14054 - in reply to #14037)
Subject: Re: reViSiT v0.91 Beta released!



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Without changing those pattern values, the first time I hit ctrl-F2 out of the blue it made cubase report a "serious error" .. I'm still working with it tho, so nothing shocking I think. Are there any default values in this assumed (by me) 'buffer' where you store pattern settings, that made this error? (e.g. all zeros) Happened just some hour ago, dunno if it's consistent.. would need to restart/tryagain I guess..

Edited by CS_TBL 2007-09-21 11:52 PM
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CS_TBL
Posted 2007-09-22 1:52 PM (#14055 - in reply to #14054)
Subject: Re: reViSiT v0.91 Beta released!



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Same thing today, bug == consistent .
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CS_TBL
Posted 2007-09-26 3:33 PM (#14056 - in reply to #14037)
Subject: Re: reViSiT v0.91 Beta released!



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There're still minor inaccuracies regarding the timing. Is this the best you can technically do, or is there still room for improvement? :P
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chrisnash
Posted 2007-09-27 11:21 AM (#14057 - in reply to #14056)
Subject: Re: reViSiT v0.91 Beta released!



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CS,

There are some technical limitations of the way external MIDI is processed compared to the VST Host. For example, a host's thread might be hogging the CPU, so that when the MIDI timer fires, it still has to wait for the host to free up the CPU. This has been explained before, I believe.

Of course, it might be helpful if you could elaborate on exactly what you mean by "inaccuracies regarding the timing". What happens? When does it happen? How can you reproduce it? Note time? Sync time? Tea time?!

Chris
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CS_TBL
Posted 2007-09-27 1:31 PM (#14058 - in reply to #14057)
Subject: Re: reViSiT v0.91 Beta released!



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tea time, definitely.

Well, it becomes obvious with for example 16th note hihats. Another obvious place where one hears inaccuracies, like for example triggering an arpeggio from -say- FM8, which plays 64 16th notes (typically one whole pattern, then the next pattern triggers that arpeggio again, but there might be a small tick, as the timing wasn't right. Basically it's kinda the issue some while ago. So the question is whether the current situation is technically the tightest situation ever possible.

Also, I could provide some recordings again I guess..
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chrisnash
Posted 2007-09-27 6:40 PM (#14059 - in reply to #14058)
Subject: Re: reViSiT v0.91 Beta released!



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If this problem has been discussed before, it would be useful if you could direct me to forum thread / email messages, so I can look up the particulars. If you sent an audio file, I should still have it, but it's a bit like looking for a needle in a haystack with all the emails / files I've received on reViSiT.

Chris
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CS_TBL
Posted 2007-10-03 7:34 PM (#14064 - in reply to #14037)
Subject: Re: reViSiT v0.91 Beta released!



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The slight timing errors are present for the internal VST channels. The midi-delay scrollbar seems to have no effect whatsoever.
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CS_TBL
Posted 2007-10-03 7:42 PM (#14065 - in reply to #14037)
Subject: Re: reViSiT v0.91 Beta released!



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check, how about this:

[ > ] (play) in cubase is reasonably sharp, perhaps just 'sharp' anyway. But play (F5) in revisit is messy.
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chrisnash
Posted 2007-10-03 9:23 PM (#14066 - in reply to #14065)
Subject: Re: reViSiT v0.91 Beta released!



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Ahem, I still don't know exactly what you talking about. Can you narrow it down just a little? What do you mean by "timing" and "messy"?

Chris
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CS_TBL
Posted 2007-10-03 10:07 PM (#14067 - in reply to #14037)
Subject: Re: reViSiT v0.91 Beta released!



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Timing being 'not tight'. Especially obvious with 16th note hihats and the likes, tho a simple 4-step bassdrum also sounds wrongly timed. It's like someone plays hihats on a keyboard without using quantize.. that kind of 'messy'. I've not checked an exported wave yet, however, exporting uses cubase's own play command, so those renders might be correct. A bit tricky to find errors then.
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chrisnash
Posted 2007-10-03 11:08 PM (#14068 - in reply to #14067)
Subject: Re: reViSiT v0.91 Beta released!



Developer

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Have you played around with different MIDI Delay settings in Preferences? Also, might be worth trying different ASIO buffer sizes / latencies...

Chris
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CS_TBL
Posted 2007-10-09 3:43 PM (#14069 - in reply to #14037)
Subject: Re: reViSiT v0.91 Beta released!



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weird bug: at a certain point the num/ doesn't work anymore, so I can't octave-- .. odd. Dunno how to reproduce that little joke..
[edit] holding down / and then pressing * helps getting the octave down a bit.. somewhat.. messy.

Edited by CS_TBL 2007-10-09 4:00 PM
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CS_TBL
Posted 2007-11-20 10:26 PM (#14090 - in reply to #14037)
Subject: Re: reViSiT v0.91 Beta released!



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Skip the key bug, was my odd keyboard.. (I tend to forget that I've a wireless keyboard with batteries who can't keep up ad infinitum ^_^)

Is there a chance that a pattern-reorder function (iirc ALT-R or ALT-O in IT2/patternorderscreen) will sneak in soon? It's a superb feature when you're working on larger pieces that are created/invented/tweaked during the process (at least that's how I think most ppl will work with trackers). Not only does it improve the overview, it's also very practical for pattern-wise navigation and copies.
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