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MIDI triggered patterns - strange behavior
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mos6502
Posted 2009-03-18 4:51 PM (#14582)
Subject: MIDI triggered patterns - strange behavior


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I'm trying to use MIDI-triggered playback instead of the Order List, and a couple of bizarre things happen. I'm not sure if this is buggy behavior or just me -

1) I can play reViSiT patterns with my MIDI keyboard, but when I try to sequence those same notes in my host's piano roll editor, it doesn't trigger anything when play it back. The piano roll editor will also play reViSiT patterns as I click to draw in the notes (or click the piano keys to the left of the editor window), giving me the idea everything works, as it would with any other softsynth... making the fact that it doesn't work on playback even more confusing.

2) If I try to record the notes from my MIDI keyboard (i.e. playing back a "live arrangement"), instead of recording one held note (like my playing a C#0, being held the duration of the pattern it's mapped to), I actually end up with a MIDI recording of ALL the MIDI output coming out of reViSiT for that particular pattern, plus the held note!*

*this method will actually render MIDI data that plays the pattern back, but... what if I want to enter the notes manually? I thought ONE MIDI note would trigger the pattern, and I didn't have to essentially dub reViSiT's entire MIDI arrangement to its respective MIDI channel...? Like, I draw a C#0, it plays the associated pattern, draw a C#1, it plays the next associated pattern, etc., instead of entering those note on top of a MIDI recording of every synth as well. I hope I'm making sense here.

I'm working in Sonar 7. I've pondered over my MIDI input/output assignments quite a bit, everything seems normal. Until I figure out what's going on I'm stuck with the Order List - any suggestions would be helpful.

Thanks,
Owen

Edited by mos6502 2009-03-18 5:02 PM
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mos6502
Posted 2009-03-18 6:07 PM (#14586 - in reply to #14582)
Subject: Re: MIDI triggered patterns - strange behavior


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Now it seems to be allowing me to (I restarted the programs) input MIDI trigger notes that actually work - weird thing is, when I record it from a MIDI controller, I still get the extra pattern MIDI data showing up... but now it just disappears after I stop recording.

More importantly... now that this works (oddly), I still can't get reViSiT to start playback from a MIDI triggering note at the very beginning of the song. It must be at least 18 ticks away from the start of the song to play back.

Edited by mos6502 2009-03-18 6:19 PM
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mos6502
Posted 2009-03-18 6:21 PM (#14587 - in reply to #14582)
Subject: Re: MIDI triggered patterns - strange behavior


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As I continue to play around, I've noticed that no MIDI note can trigger a reViSiT pattern exactly on the beat, anywhere in the song... if I start playback at, let's say 02:01:000, the MIDI note there must start no earlier than 02:01:018 for reViSiT to play the pattern.
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mos6502
Posted 2009-03-18 6:46 PM (#14590 - in reply to #14582)
Subject: Re: MIDI triggered patterns - strange behavior


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I think I may have found the solution, at least to the timing issue (but not an explanation of the weird MIDI recording behavior): Within Sonar 7, Options -> Audio -> Advanced tab, select "Full Chase Lock" from under the Synchronization options.

Now the MIDI notes I'm manually drawing into the piano roll view are triggering right on the beat.
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mos6502
Posted 2009-03-18 7:45 PM (#14591 - in reply to #14590)
Subject: Re: MIDI triggered patterns - strange behavior


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mos6502 - 2009-03-18 1:46 PM

I think I may have found the solution, at least to the timing issue (but not an explanation of the weird MIDI recording behavior): Within Sonar 7, Options -> Audio -> Advanced tab, select "Full Chase Lock" from under the Synchronization options.

Now the MIDI notes I'm manually drawing into the piano roll view are triggering right on the beat.


Disregard this (quoted message). I've changed so many things trying to get this to function that I lost track of the changes... I didn't figure it out.

Edited by mos6502 2009-03-18 7:47 PM
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chrisnash
Posted 2009-03-19 9:54 AM (#14597 - in reply to #14591)
Subject: Re: MIDI triggered patterns - strange behavior



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Location: England
I think I lost track somewhere... do you mean that it's now working for you, but you don't know why; or that it's not working (and you don't know why!)?

Chris
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mos6502
Posted 2009-03-19 3:20 PM (#14599 - in reply to #14582)
Subject: Re: MIDI triggered patterns - strange behavior


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Posts: 29
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MIDI pattern triggering is still not working for me. I thought I had fixed it for a moment, but I'd just gotten ahead of myself - sorry for the confusion. Where I'm at right now:

Problem #1:
MIDI pattern triggering does not work unless I have manually pushed back the MIDI note by at least 18 ticks from the beat, rendering the feature essentially useless.

Related problem #2:
When I try to directly record MIDI in to reViSiT's MIDI channel in Sonar (to playback patterns) via controller, I get not just the MIDI note I'm holding down, but all the reViSiT pattern's MIDI output as well. Sometimes this extra note data stays, sometimes it disappears after recording stops, leaving only the held notes I was originally playing. I don't understand why it happens either way.

All of this has me pretty confused. All I'm trying to do is sequence the patterns via MIDI (problem #1), and if I record live it behaves as if I'm bouncing pattern data to reViSiT's MIDI channel in Sonar (problem #2). I've spent many hours playing with reViSiT over these last few weeks, and despite all the big improvements I still feel there's just enough of a gap between what is and what could be to prevent my using the software on a regular basis... hopefully it's just user error at this point, I'm lost...

Thanks for your time,
Owen
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chrisnash
Posted 2009-03-19 7:56 PM (#14604 - in reply to #14599)
Subject: Re: MIDI triggered patterns - strange behavior



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Location: England
Okay, tested this one now.

#1 I think your first problem with triggering was due to interference between the Order List mode and the MIDI triggered pattern mode. Clicking play inside the host would trigger song playback, which would set reViSiT's time base and then prevent any attempts by MIDI notes to reset the timebase and restart playback.

This is almost bordering on the "undocumented feature" frontier, as in certain situations, it meant the reViSiT would fall back on the Order list, whenever a MIDI triggered pattern wasn't playing, which might have some creative potential. The fix, however, will prevent this somewhat unpredictable, if "creative", behaviour.

#2 As for your second problem, I have no problems recording my MIDI-triggering. I think you may have your MIDI Track Input set to "Omni" or "All Inputs - Omni", which in Sonar takes all MIDI inputs to the system AND all VSTi MIDI outputs, and uses them as channel inputs. What you need to do is make a more specific input selection, such as just your MIDI keyboard, ensuring that reViSiT isn't being fed back into the channel.

I'll try to get a new version out tonight, so you can get rocking. Or pumpin'. Or classicing. Or whatever your poison is!

Thanks for the feedback,
Chris
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lackluster
Posted 2010-09-05 9:24 AM (#15134 - in reply to #14604)
Subject: Re: MIDI triggered patterns - strange behavior


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Location: helsinki

chrisnash - 2009-03-19 9:56 PM Okay, tested this one now.

interference between the Order List mode and the MIDI triggered pattern mode. Clicking play inside the host would trigger song playback, which would set reViSiT's time base and then prevent any attempts by MIDI notes to reset the timebase and restart playback.This is almost bordering on the "undocumented feature" frontier, as in certain situations, it meant the reViSiT would fall back on the Order list, whenever a MIDI triggered pattern wasn't playing, which might have some creative potential. The fix, however, will prevent this somewhat unpredictable, if "creative", behaviour.

 

is there going to eventually be a way of enabling this, so that the orderlist would play the actual song, and you could trigger, or, pepper around patterns from the midi-togglables,  and could it be so that it could either keep the main orderlist going while the other pattern data is being played on top of it, or that  the playing-on-top-of-the-orderlist-pattern  would actually gate the orderlistpattern's notes out(=i.e. orderlist pattern would mute, and then either continue patternplayback from the row you've reached while you've been playing another pattern, or start from the beginning again)? i think both/well everything would be immensely powerful

 

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chrisnash
Posted 2010-09-05 11:52 AM (#15138 - in reply to #15134)
Subject: Re: MIDI triggered patterns - strange behavior



Developer

Posts: 746
50010010025
Location: England
is there going to eventually be a way of enabling this, so that the orderlist would play the actual song, and you could trigger, or, pepper around patterns from the midi-togglables,  and could it be so that it could either keep the main orderlist going while the other pattern data is being played on top of it, or that  the playing-on-top-of-the-orderlist-pattern  would actually gate the orderlistpattern's notes out(=i.e. orderlist pattern would mute, and then either continue patternplayback from the row you've reached while you've been playing another pattern, or start from the beginning again)? i think both/well everything would be immensely powerful


If I follow you - you're asking if it would be possible to have a mode where the order list plays, but patterns can also be triggered over the top. This is certainly something that could be looked into when reViSiT supports the triggering of multiple patterns.
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lackluster
Posted 2010-09-06 11:19 AM (#15146 - in reply to #15138)
Subject: Re: MIDI triggered patterns - strange behavior


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Location: helsinki

chrisnash - 2010-09-05 1:52 PM
is there going to eventually be a way of enabling this, so that the orderlist would play the actual song, and you could trigger, or, pepper around patterns from the midi-togglables,  and could it be so that it could either keep the main orderlist going while the other pattern data is being played on top of it, or that  the playing-on-top-of-the-orderlist-pattern  would actually gate the orderlistpattern's notes out(=i.e. orderlist pattern would mute, and then either continue patternplayback from the row you've reached while you've been playing another pattern, or start from the beginning again)? i think both/well everything would be immensely powerful
If I follow you - you're asking if it would be possible to have a mode where the order list plays, but patterns can also be triggered over the top. This is certainly something that could be looked into when reViSiT supports the triggering of multiple patterns.

 

sounds lovely

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